Joe Bakhmoutski has turned his personal experience of fighting and surviving cancer into a mission to inspire others to take control of what is within their control to resolve, upgrade and heal, so they can live with more purpose and happiness.
Joe Bakhmoutski is a coach, host of the podcast ‘Simplifying Cancer’, and author who shares his story of discovery and resolve that developed through his fight against cancer.
As a husband and father of a young son, Joe never expected to be dealing with cancer. Following his diagnosis and during his recovery, he created his own path to optimal health and wellbeing to accompany medical treatment. He shares his experience and insights in his 3 books, “Finding Hope in Times of Uncertainty: A Guide to Thriving in the Challenging World of Today", "Simplify Cancer: Man's Guide to Navigating the Everyday Reality of Cancer “, and "Calm Before the Scan: How to Stop Worrying About Cancer Recurrence", filled with tools to restore hope and calm in the midst of chaos.
In this episode we discuss:
Check out this special video Joe made just for us, sharing his go-to strategy for tackling worry and how his new book can help someone in a challenging time (with links to very special gifts!):
http://www.powertobehappy.com/happified/
Welcome back. I am so happy to have you with me this week for a terrific conversation. I am so excited to dig in and talk with Joe. Back moves back. mitski I'm so sorry. It's such a. I love it. Yeah, oh, you're kind we're gonna have fun. Joe is a celebrated speaker, author and coach used who is using his lived experience with cancer and mental health struggles to share inspiration and advice on how to thrive despite the setbacks and challenges you might be facing today. He is also the host of his own podcast running for two years now. So it's always nice to share a conversation with a fellow podcast host, we will have the link to his show in the show notes as well as ways that you can be in touch, because I know you're going to want to continue the conversation. After you get to know Joe a little bit better. Thank you for making some time in your morning, my afternoon on the other side of the globe.
Thanks. Thanks so much for having me. And thank you for the for the kind words, I really appreciate it.
Absolutely. I'm so glad that we are connected because I love to share stories of people who have come through difficult experiences and have have the insight have the aha moment just give themselves permission to put their happiness and wellbeing first, and especially those who are bringing that message out to the world. So thanks for being a part of the conversation here.
Thanks so much, Susie. I really appreciate it. And I think you know, what you're doing is so vital. What just happened helping all of us something that we all need right now is finding your more ways of dealing with stress with the with the with the craziness of daily life, right?
Yes, yeah, it gets pretty crazy. And then we add in some of these other life events. So I'd love to know a little bit more about your story a little bit more about your life before cancer and then how it moved and inspired. You'd like sharing this message.
Yeah, yeah, thank you, Susie. Absolutely. So I was actually at the best point of my life before cancer. And you know, I just fell in love and married with the woman I've always wanted to meet without knowing that. We were like I said, we got married, we had a baby, I my career was just shooting up, I was just, I was just all of a sudden, like, it was everything just came together. It was so perfect and seal really like up one night I was just in the shower. And I was just getting myself clean. And that's when they're going to my hand Ridge down. And I felt this slump, I felt this hard lump on my testicle, and just just this cold shiver went right through the system because in that moment, I realized something is wrong and kind of collect infamy. Why? For weeks, like, like, I felt like my underwear shrunk three sizes. That was awful. Like, I just I it's all fell into place for me. And so you know, the next day I ran to the doctors and I was sent off all sorts of tests and real things. And things happen quite quickly from the I had an operation. I had chemo and and you know I was the chemo was like a nine weeks in hospital. So it was it was a it was a lot of things happened and and it was a completely life changing experience that happened in a blink of a moment where you know, it's just one moment like life was perfect and then just everything changed.
I'm so grateful that you had that that opportunity that a presence of mind to be really reveling in how wonderful life was going for you. It does make it I think even more jarring when suddenly you're pulled out of it. And then to I'm sure I would guess be dropped into treatment so quickly. It's hard to tie up loose ends to take that time you know, suddenly you're going to be away from work so you were you staying in hospital while you were undergoing your whole chemotherapy treatment.
Well, I was staying there for for four parts of it. But I was able to come home and go in to the hospital to get to get treatment. So it was kind of a mixed bag. But all in all, it was a couple of months where life really flipped on its head. And I think this is this is one of those what you described as life events right? where something happens, and when you totally don't expect it and it completely changes all of your plans. For the future, it completely changes even your sentences your body, how you think about yourself, how you look at the world. And it forces you to kind of adjust and figure out a new way forward. And, and a new way of thinking about yourself, and, and ultimately, what do you want to do with yourself? Right? Because that that also changes I think when we go through experiences in life, right?
Yes. And I would dare say a lot of people over this last year have really come to take a closer look at if they're doing what they want to be doing with their life, right? These really dramatic experiences, kind of make us stand still for a minute and ask the big questions. Are we really happy with where we are with where we think we're going from here? It's unfortunate that it takes a big crisis, often to make us really take a deep look at that, but it definitely does. And it shifts your priorities, I'm sure. Did you did you find yourself putting more priority on things that you thought previously you could you could wait until later and come back to
you? That's exactly right. It's it's, it's it's funny how Yeah, it's exactly as you say, it's funny how sometimes you get so lost in it, just kind of your reality of daily life, right? Because we are all so busy, right? There's always just so much that is going on, and you're doing all of those things. And sometimes you can forget to ask yourself, I mean, is this really what I want? Am I really kind of growing in the right direction here? Um, you know, and I guess that's, that's the reality of, you know, what we're experiencing? And this is, of course, relatively, you know, I was asking myself, is my life? Am I doing the right things? Am I am I in the right place? myself. And I think we, when we're confronted with these big changes, where we're confronted with situations where we have to decide, you know, what's next, or, you know, it almost forces us to kind of rethink, you know, like, a minute with the place, and, and in a way to, to take back control. Because when things happen, you know, whether this be a pandemic, or whether this be difficult personal circumstances, whether, you know, whether it's a health issue, or whether this is, you know, whether this is a personal crisis, or whether this is some kind of financial difficulty, we get into a situation where we be a place of, like, uncertainty, right? You don't know what's going on, and you you feel like things are just happening to you, right? You feel like, all of these things are just coming at you, right? And you're trying to kind of go, like, what do I do now, and you kind of try to adjust and you kind of try to get your bearings. And I think the key thing is, you know, before you even decide, you know, what it is that you want, and what's right, is to try to get some semblance of control back into your life, and figure out, you know, like, I'm really, to me, it comes down to separation, what you can control what from what you cannot control. And then, and then like, for example, with cancer, right? with cancer, I knew that I had no control of like, how the cancer is gonna spread, I had no control over that, whether the treatment would work. But you know, what, I thought, Well, what I do have control, I can understand what the treatment options, I can at least ask questions, I can get myself to a place where I understand enough about what it is that I can do, I can, I can kind of bring my, my, my family at, you know, and friends to kind of let them know what's going on, and help them to kind of be be there for me on my terms. You know, which was a big thing. So I think that that kind of taking back control and figuring out what is it that you can do I think that's a critical first step when you're in a difficult spot.
I think that's such a powerful perspective. And a lot of people in my experience, get really caught up in in laboring over the things that they don't have any control over. Really sad, really pessimistic losing hope because of everything that's outside of their control and forgetting how much is within our control, and really maximizing that. So I appreciate your illuminating that. I think that's really helpful for people to even in the most dire situation start to separate right and not put our energy into the things that we can't change but really put our at tension and efforts into what we can maximize or improve or are asked for help. I like to that you talked about telling your friends and family, how you needed them to show up for you.
Exactly this is and either way, I feel also like I just want to touch on what you said earlier, which is exactly right, that like separating what you can and cannot control. And sometimes that's, that's easier said than done. But what I think in this case is particularly helpful is if you if you actually just throw all of yourself all of your energy, all of your kind of presence all of your time into things that you can control. And that will naturally lead you away from the things that you cannot control things like worry, things like craziness, I'm not saying they're going to completely eradicated this or the possible, but it will at least it will kind of put it into the background, which I think is a big deal. And I don't think I was also entirely truthful with you when I said that, you know, I can let people know how they can support me, there was a journey and I certainly made mistakes. I wish. I was like in the place where I was like, I was telling people exactly what to do, and I wish they'd given me exactly the support that I wanted. That wasn't really the case. I think I've learned to do that. You know, I mean, even with with like, with the family. No, I remember this moment, when I was just I just before I was gonna start my chemo, I knew there was gonna be in hospital, I, for a long time, I knew that the hospital was far away, I wouldn't be able to see the family, you know, like, like my wife was working. And like I was I was I was in daycare, I knew I wouldn't be able to see them for a little while. And so I I wanted to spend some time with with with my son, he was two at the time. And so I took him to follow favorite Park. And you know, we spend this gift that is just this magical day, you know, we just had this so much fun. We were like, chasing the seagulls. And we were like, played with his toys. And we were like on the swings and like playing with the toy cars and had the picnic. Look all of this great stuff. And then just this magical day and then going home, I thought like What can I tell like this The Oh my two year old about, like my cancer like, I don't want to scare him, I don't want to put him off. So I ended up not really saying anything at all. Like we just said, Oh, well, I'm just going to the hospital, the doctors are going to look after me. And they would like just talk on Skype, right? This is what we had back then. So and I noticed that when I was in hospital, and they would talk on Skype. And they tried to have a normal conversation that was me on one end, and you look at my wife and my kid on the other end. And I noticed that this, like this kind of pain of not understanding what's going on like, like, as safe as adults were like keeping secrets from him, right? Because he could feel that something resolved, but he didn't know what it was. And you know, when I saw that pain in his eyes of just not knowing what's going on, I realize that by wanting to really shield and protect my son from this experience that I have the cancer instead, I excluded him. And then that's when I knew that things had to change. And this is when we, you know, had we talked about it. We talked about how to have these conversations with him. And and this is how we ended up you know, bringing up cancer, telling him about how it is. And I was surprised that she took it well, you know, because he knew what was going on. We were like just kind of upfront and direct. And in a weird way. I think this really came out for me is when the time came for his third birthday, right? We had this the plan for his big bite and everything then of course they didn't happen. But we decided to have his kind of birthday party in my in my oncology ward. They had the separate room there for us. And it was it was a lot of fun. You know, like my wife brought the presence my mom brought the cake we had in college and nurses coming soon head to birthday. And it was just this it was a lot of fun. And when we were there and I was there just plugged into my drip. And when I saw like just my son, you know, hugging his like this huge house toy. I when I saw that, I thought well, that was the moment when this whole cancer thing became normal. And that's what I think is the crucial realization When we make our struggle that we make our challenge, when we make it, instead of kind of wanting to put it away, put it away to the side,
hope it's going to go away, like, shove it somewhere out of view. But if we instead make it part of our lives and kind of learn to live around it, I think that's when it does the least damage.
I feel I think that's a really important story. I'm so so glad that you shared that with us. Because we do we get into this space where we think we know better we know that people can handle world, just protect them, we'll keep it all on ourselves, right? And we're doing them a service and and just like you were able to see, as young as he was, he knew that there was something that wasn't being disclosed, you know, people understand when we're withholding from them. And so I think that's, you know, really gave him more confidence that you have this faith and trust in him that there might be things that are hard to understand, but he's part of the conversation and not, you know, there aren't secrets that he has to wonder about. Just bring all that stress off the table. I mean, there's enough stress as it is, we don't need to also add stress into the What don't I know, what don't they tell me? So I think that's important, because as parents and family members, we do get into the space where we think we're protecting people, by shielding them from what's going on.
Exactly. And, you know, I think we're also so good at making wrong assumptions. I mean, I don't know, I'm just like, I'm a, I'm a master at this, just making assumptions about other people, just in general, like, what are they want? What do they know, and, you know, like, one of the things that I assumed is that people would going to react in a very particular way to, you know, like friends and, and family, but people have reacted all sorts of different ways. And I realized that was some people like they were, they just know how to react. So they didn't want to say the wrong thing. They didn't want to do the wrong thing. So they kind of didn't do anything. And at the time, it really was really, it was was incredibly upsetting to me, because there was some people who kind of just disappeared from my life, really, at the time, when I needed them the most. And this is a huge, one of the huge lessons that I've learned was, I think, you know, instead of assuming that things, people will do certain things, or, you know, this whole explicit communication has just become such a big point for me. So it's because, unless I, what I've learned, and this is, you know, I think true, especially when I think of guys, right, but I think for for everyone, I think we all work this way, is unless you specifically tell someone how you feel, and what you kind of would love them to do for you and help you or support your or like what it is that you can want them from them for yourself. It's probably not gonna happen. No, because like, people just can't read our minds. And I think we just forget that sometimes. Because way we think they know you and and that automatically qualifies them to be mind reader's. And it doesn't. I wish it did, though.
If we could add that to our superpowers, we could put in a request. But I think I think that's a really important lesson just to, to not expect people to have those psychic powers. And to help everyone out, help yourself out and help them out by letting them know how they can I support you. I think that's empowering all the way around.
Yeah, exactly. And, and also says, I think when you do that, I also think it's incredibly empowering for those people around you. Because if there's if this is your close friend, if this is like a, you know, a colleague or or a business partner, if this is someone, if this is your romantic partner or family member, if they truly care about you, they're gonna love you for it. Because you when you explicitly tell them what's going on, and how they can help you. You've really just made it so much easier for them to really be there for you and support you on your terms, right? Because, like there's no guesswork, they don't have to figure out what to do, like they just know, right?
Exactly, exactly what makes everybody feel a little bit more capable or empowered in the situation. And I'm curious too, so I'm not familiar very often. miliar with the health care system in Australia, so I'm guessing that the medical needs were met right out the gate. This is what's happening. This is how we feel we need to treat you. How did you go about getting other support? Where did you find a therapist or a counselor at that point? I mean, I'm sure mentally This was incredibly overwhelming to take on at a young age with a young family.
Well, absolutely. And I have honestly can say that I had no idea about any of that. And I think this is one of the was, for me, one of the biggest realizations was like, I know, it never occurred to me to seek any psychological support because I was like, well, this is a stencil, like this is supposed to be hard. You know. And also, I come from, you know, from Eastern European long line of like, life is supposed to be hard anyway, so just find your best way of dealing with it, you know, but I think this is enough, I found out so much about all sorts of different support services and physical health and mental health. Actually, when I was doing the podcast because I was I came across all these experts in all these these different fields, and, and how they can make a huge difference. But I think this is true for like, all of us, right? Wherever way walk of life, or ever situation Marine, like, oftentimes, like, it never occurs to you to go and say, you know, I'm going to find a therapist, I'm going to find a professional, I'm going to get someone to help me deal with this. Because sometimes you are just so stuck in the reality of, you know, like trying to deal with whatever crisis you're in, or, for me, it was a bit of governmental achievement, which was really overwhelming, right? Because you have to learn this old this new language, and all this new way of looking at things. But we get so real, we get so pulled in into this, like this, the challenges of daily life, and obviously forgot to say, forget to say like, what's right for me? Like, what would actually help me right now? And it? No, it sounds so basic. So this, but I wish somebody just, you know, definitely over the shoulder or begged me over the head and said, Hey, man, you got to get this something, you know, to get help, right?
Yes, so so it was really after your own experience, as you were sharing this information and finding more resources that you became aware of how much more there is available? support wise?
Exactly. I had no idea and, and maybe, and this is, of course, your specific, I guess, in different situations, because sometimes, you might find out about it through all sorts of different channels. And of course, that depends on the situation you're in depends on the system depends on all sorts of things. But yeah, I think it's so I think at the heart of it is, you know, this is, I guess the decision that I guess a realization that I had, Suzy is that no one is more invested in your health, in your well being and your happiness as you are yourself. You know, even if you have people around you who really care for you. Even if you have people who love you and support you, you got to look out and do what's right for you and find out things that are going to be right for yourself that are going to kind of support you through a difficult time. You know, which we all face in one way or another, and just kind of be your own champion when it comes to, to health and happiness.
Absolutely, I'm so glad. And I love the passion that you bring all of this outlet, I hope that people are just taking it in. You have to be your own champion. No one else is going to put your well being and your happiness first. Right? We have to learn how to do that for ourselves and be our own advocate and look for the tools that we need and not sell ourselves short and say, cancer is supposed to be hard. Of course I'm struggling everyone struggles, we can find resources to help to help lift us up. I think that's I think that's really important for people to to hear and to take in. So thank you for that. So after so since then, along your path, what's helped you to be healthier and happier as you've become aware of other resources and that you can call in.
I think it's also came to when it came to a point of really being, you know, at least beyond the musical immediate kind of danger of dying from cancer when I had my first old clear, I found myself in a really weird places because what I expected was, you know, I'm going to get all glare, I'm going to go back to, everything's going back to normal. And on so many levels, it turned out that that was not going to be the case. And I, I just remember distinctly, you know, coming home after chemo, and I thought, well, I'm just really gonna enjoy this. Now I can go to the toilet with my door closed, I can do all sorts of things. I'm just gonna enjoy this my time at home. And I remember like, I made myself a fresh pot of coffee, I got the book that just arrived that I ordered. You know, this next book and that kind of the series that was reserved for I'm really gonna enjoy this, you're gonna call for a couple of days before I go back to work. And I remember just, I came out and I'm on the deck, and I was wanted to go and say, sit down on the swing bench, we've got over in the backyard. And they're all just my hands started swimming, and I felt so awful. Like I just, I finally somehow made it to the, that I sat down. I remember having a drink of my coffee, and I love Give me a huge coffee snob, and I had this gulp of coffee. And it was just Gaston. I nearly just spat it out. It was awful. And I realized, Oh, God, like this is my, like, my taste buds have changed of the keyboard. And I was like, Whoa, that's awful. And I opened up my book. And I and I looked at the words and I recognize the words but none of it kind of could fit in. And it was just like a jumble and I was like I put that aside I was like I'm a mass, you know, I'm a mess. Like I have to get back into live I got to go back to work. I have to get over my family. Like I'm not I'm not in any way shape or form to be like in a good way mentally or physically. I put in lots of weight as well because when I went through treatment, I was on this steroids. And it made like it which was great because it helped me with the treatment. But it also made me eat like crazy. So I put on like I put in at least 15 kilos through that time, right? It was it was so I think on all levels I was and also I didn't know what to do with myself, but like just, you know, they like everything that I knew that made sense was just now it's kind of up in the air I didn't know what was going to happen. So I decided that I needed to really get you know, get a hold of myself and figure out what's right for me so I started to to do things that I've never really done like I went to see exercise physiologist who do they like a program for me how to can get into fitness which for me was a big deal because I've never done anything to do with my overall fitness. I started eating well I started I went to see you know, and nutritionist who actually specializes in people who had cancer. And so I started doing all sorts of things I started region, you know, kind of self help books I tried to do psychology books, I started to try to figure out like, what is going to be right for me, I started reading about mindfulness and, and trying all sorts of different things to figure out like what's gonna work for me. And, and it just, and I think it's even through trial and error, I've found lots and lots of things that I feel worked for me or found my way of doing it, that I, I felt like, you know, I felt like, you know, was maybe an insight or something that's that's, that's changed and they really gave me a completely different way of looking at things or even simple, simple things like like journaling and finding the right types of questions to ask myself so I can can kind of make sense of what's going on, you know, so I guess doing all of that has really been transformational because it helped me to find a place where I felt like I was now in control of my life. I was at least in control of my health to the extent that I could control my health right and over a period of time it's really has been transformational in just getting me back to the what's called the new normal.
Where I feel like I am in all honesty at least you know, physically and mentally I'm in a in the best place that I've ever been even considering how I was before cancer.
I think that's so important. I love what you're saying about that. And I can't help but think of drawing a bit of an analogy. It can be a leap, I haven't had cancer. So I'm not trying to minimize what you went through. But that what people have been through in this last year has been such a huge shift. And I think a lot of people are frustrated or even grieving right now, because they felt like when this is in hand, we're going to go back to normal. And then discovering that just normal doesn't work anymore. It's it's not the same. And we're not the same, because we've been through a life changing experience, protracted over a whole year, you got to just try to digest all of yours over nine weeks of chemotherapy, which is incredibly intense, along with just, you know, worrying about the outcome, right? your own personal health, and how is your family going to look when this is all over? And so taking that opportunity, when you start recognizing this doesn't work, I'm not the same person, what do I look like what works for me, and really getting to work, I think is just so admirable, because perhaps that's a point at which people get psyched out, they get frustrated, they start to count the limitations, think about the things that are beyond their control, I don't have the focus, where's my you know, my mental acuity, where's my physical strength, and be frustrated on all of that, instead of looking for the opportunities that you're able to find, I mean, just all of these tools that you let yourself explore and discover what works for you, and, and what doesn't, I think is so empowering and, and to hear you say, you feel better, stronger, happier now than even perhaps to an extent before your diagnosis is really empowering. And I hope that brings hope to people.
Yeah, absolutely says, and thank you for saying that, I really appreciate that. And I think it's so true, you know, because whenever you go through a difficult experience, you know, like, the crazy, the crazy time is that they had throughout the pandemic, right, that's been such a huge shake up for, for all of us. It's where it's, you know, because when we go through these experiences, sometimes we go, like, things don't make sense. And, you know, like, like, like, what you rightfully so pointed out that the new normal doesn't really exist, or whatever you knew is normal. So I think it's important to kind of let yourself, say, you know, what, that's the case. And also, I've changed, I think that's okay to say, as well, if you go through, you know, it's hard to imagine going through kind of any kind of big transition in your life, and then expecting yourself to be the same person, right, because you're not the same person, you were, you know, 10 years ago, you know, the same person you were five years ago. And, or, and it's a natural process that we go through, and we evolve, we change. And when you go through kind of a big dramatic experience, that kind of just accelerates it. And when and what we need after that is a time to kind of process it is when we need the time to really accept Well, look, this, this is a huge thing that's happened and circumstances have changed. And I've changed. But what I do now, and I think, you know, and this is, I think, a really, you know, a great thing that we can explore now as well, because I think that's a that's a big deal, right?
Yes, absolutely. And I think that the more we can pool resources, share the stories of what worked and what didn't work, just helps to lift us all up to inspire a little hope and bring, you know, some levity into the process that otherwise can be really overwhelming. When we start counting everything that we have to give up everything, we don't get to step right back into instead of exploring. What can we grow into? And what can we start to call in, start designing our life from this point forward, rather than counting the losses?
Yeah, exactly. And it's such a, such a fantastic way that you describe it, Susan in grow into it, it's not like, it's not something that you just kind of made up on the sport because you were born. It's something that is a natural transition, a natural growth. And that's really how I think about it. When we go into situations that, that you know, we're in kind of these, these transitions with, something's changed. Something's kind of shifted in your life is, to me, it's also has to be a change in how we think about ourselves. How you experience meaning, like what is meaningful to you right now. And I think the way to do it is to kind of instead of holding those worries, I know this is what's what's helped me in the big way. Focusing on all those things that could go wrong, or things that don't seem right, because there's always that is to look, try to look outward and think about, you know, what really helped me was going, who do I want to help? And why. And I think this was a big revelation for me. Because it's even those two parts of the question like, figuring out who do I want to help? Because it made me think, Well, you know, because we all go through our own, we have our own unique experiences. And, you know, when they think of outside of ourselves and think towards other people, I think there was people who may be struggling right now, people that, you know, might be in your family, might be in your community, my, the people that you know, have experienced similar things to yourself, I will always look for. I mean, that's why we kind of, you know, that's why we live in cities, that's why we're make friends. That's why we fall in love, right? Because we have, we have this affinity, and we have a need to be with other people. And I think that's why it's so crucial to rediscover those connections, we discovered those links, and, and make a difference to others in whatever way that is for you. But I think that transitioning from yourself to others is such a huge release, right? Because it puts it takes away the pressure. So at least some of the pressure and the worry about what like, what, what, what is going to happen? And how am I going to deal with this? And how am I gonna, how am I gonna be able to handle that, and instead of, again, kind of transition your, your energy, and your attention towards things that again, like we touched on earlier that you can control, but they're to do with other people. And when you can think of, of a person or and you know, like this could be this could be a brother, this could be your partner, this could be kind of group with people that you're connected with, or at least affiliated in some way or have gone through a similar experience. I mean, for me, it was for example, initially, when I know, in my journey, it was people who've been through cancer now I guess I feel of it, it's it's big, it's anyone who's been through a struggle, you know, and, and figuring out, like, Who do you want to help and why because we all go through our unique experiences, right? And it shapes who you are as a person, it's, you have your own really unique perspective on what the world is like, and you've learned so much, you know, yeah, every one of us has learned so much about ourselves about life in the way that we can help whether that's through just sitting down with someone and be able to listen, or whether that's through some kind of a practice, or whether that's through some kind of a project, whatever that is for you. But there's birth there are things that we can do for other people that can they're going to be able to help you to deal with whatever challenges that you experiences in your life and knowing why that is important as well. Because if you feel like well, you know for example, I want to help you know, I want to help my family by renovating the kitchen, you know, or I want to help you know other people who go through challenging times, to live a happier more fulfilled life or whatever having that that why there is there is meaningful to you. And that is specific to you and I guess your perspective and take on the world is so crucial because that that can be the could be the driver This is going to keep you on track to live the life that you truly want.
Yes, I think that's I think that's beautifully put a powerful antidote to worry is looking for ways that you can serve and support others and and you know, getting outside of ourselves getting outside of that endless list of things that are wrong and showing up for other people getting context again, like what are other people struggling with, there's a lot that's the same there's a lot that unites us there's a lot that other people have on their plate that we don't we're blessed in ways that sometimes it's hard to see when all we're counting is our struggles. And so I love that I hope that people really take that to heart and and you know sometimes in this space you know, if you if you're really into personal development, people get this feeling, oh, I have to know my purpose and live my purpose and my whole life has to be built around it. But you know, perhaps you have a job that's nine to five and you go and you support at work. But what really lights you up is those little ways that you're able to To show up and support others a personal project or a mission or aligning with a nonprofit group, you know, and looking for ways to be of service, it doesn't have to be your life work. It doesn't have to be your career. But there are ways that you can support other people. And I think that's really rewarding in both aspects. for them and for ourselves.
Yes, so truces and you know what, it's also a start of, of, it might be a start of a journey, right? Because when you start when you put yourself on the path to doing this one thing, maybe it starts out as something really small, maybe it starts with I don't know, like, volunteering for somewhere, like for an hour, wake up, whatever, right? It can can lead you to different things, it can lead you to meet different people, it might give you ideas, to like, do all of of the things that you've never thought of before. Like I never thought that, you know, I'm gonna start a podcast, I never thought I'm gonna have, you know, now toolbox, right? You know, I, all those things, all those like or speaking or, you know, or getting into coaching, like all of those things, I've never really considered that were possible. And unless I've taken the first step where I had no idea what I was doing, you know, I had no idea like my first podcast guest was my because I knew that people were struggling with it, you know, and I knew that I wasn't done the person who was going to be dealing with this life after cancer. So I was like, well, who would I speak to first would be my guess? Well, I guess I'll just talk to colleges, right? And see if he wants to go on, right. So I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't have any huge plans. My my plan was like, how do I get answers for myself? How do I get to live a better life, I just hope it well, maybe it helps another person. You know, that's how it all started. And I think that's such a huge thing that we have, especially in our culture, where we have all this kind of overnight success, Suzy, like where there's so much pressure to get to instantly be successful in everything you're doing. And that's just so not true, right? Like, you got to start where you are.
I love it. Absolutely. I did have that in mind. As you were talking, I was like, you probably couldn't have imagined with that first podcast interview with your oncologist that all of these years later, you're still at it, your audience is growing. And now as you say you have books, your coaching clients and you know, always discovering more ways that you're able to serve and support. Tell us the name of your podcast, so folks can look it up. We'll have it in the show notes as well.
Yeah, it's simplified cancer podcast. So it's, you can find it, or wherever you listen to podcasts or just simplify cancer.com. Yeah, that's awesome. That's the place.
Beautiful. I love it. I'm so grateful that you made this time and we brought you brought this conversation. I think this is so so valuable. Is there anything else you want to share with folks as we wrap up?
Yeah, I think it's just so vital since like, like we talked about throughout this conversation, to really be your own champion when it comes to health, when it comes to wellness, when it comes to looking out for yourself. Because what I found in life is that we have to really channel you know, ourselves into where we want to grow into, like you said, I think that's so crucial. Because why worry about all those things that could go wrong, when there was so much to make, right.
Beautiful, I love it. I'm so glad you found that ability to be your own champion. Thanks for bringing that and I hope that other people take you up on it and look for ways to be their own champion and carve a brighter future and path forward. Thank you so much, Joe, it's been a treat talking with you.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you so much for what you do in the world. Thank you.
Thank you. Take care.