Andrew Pace was born to build. His family has been in the construction material supply business since the 1930’s. After his personal experience with the toxicity of “safe” products, he committed his career to helping people have access to healthier products for safer homes.
The EPA recognizes indoor air quality as one of the primary concerns for human health. Over the last few decades more attention has come to “green building” practices, but it’s important to know that not everything “green” is healthy!
Andrew Pace is the founder and owner of the GDC (The Green Design Center) /Building For Health®, the premiere retailer of green and healthy home building and improvement products and consulting in the US. He has become a nationally recognized expert on green and healthy building products, assisting over 25,000 homeowners with their home remodeling and new home construction projects.
In this episode we discuss:
You can catch Andrew’s podcast, Non Toxic Environments, to learn more about all aspects of healthy, sustainable building practices. https://www.thegreendesigncenter.com/non-toxic-environments/
Thank you for joining us this week for my conversation with Andy pace, the founder of the green Design Center, and member of generations all the building supplies company located in Wisconsin. He is a passionate advocate for building healthier homes. As someone who like myself has chemical sensitivities, he has educated himself and other leaders in the building industry and how we can be creating or healing homes that are healthier, so that the people who live in them can restore and maintain their optimal health, we cover some great ground in today's topic, like finding the best builder to build your healthy home, and some of the nuances and in what green really means. So glad you're here with us enjoy the conversation.
Living in a stressful world doesn't mean you have to give up on happiness. Instead, you can shift your perspective of stress and discover how to live your life in flow. Welcome to have a fireside I'm your host, Susie BI. Join me for inspiration and interviews with folks who are shining their light in the world in the areas of positive mindset, health and wellness. I'm so happy to have you here.
Let me ask you a question. How do you answer when stress calls. It comes in on lots of different channels these days, sometimes as white noise and sometimes with bells and whistles blaring. You may try to power through working harder and pushing yourself to the limit in the hopes that doing all you can will be enough to get you through stress can feel heavy, ominous, and maybe hiding inside of any new email or notification on your computer. What if instead, you see stress as an opportunity to rise and thrive? What if stress not only strengthens you, but fuels your success. It's not a dream. And it's not a secret that's exclusive to the power players. If you shift your perspective, you can empower yourself to enjoy a radical shift in how you show up to stress and how stress shows up in your life. Want to learn more, I have a special report for you that shares some tools you can easily incorporate to start putting stress to work for you. It's available for free at happifiedlife.com. Click on the gift button to pick up your report today.
There we go. Welcome back. I am so happy to have you with me this week as I am bringing the conversation to how we can have a healthier and more peaceful healing home haven. And we've spoken to this before but today I brought in an expert in the industry of how we can transform our home and be healthier while we're doing it. And with the results in the end. So Andrew pace is joining me today. He is the founder and owner of the green Design Center in Waukesha, Wisconsin. He launched the company in 1992, and is now the premier retailer of green and healthy home building and Home Improvement products and consulting in the US. So this is the guy to know and he's got terrific resources. He's also the host of his own podcast, non toxic environments, where he and his co host discuss all aspects of healthy, sustainable building practices. And there's a lot more to it than that, but we'll just dive into the conversation because we could go so many different directions. I want to save time for this chat. Andrew, thanks for joining me.
Oh, you are my pleasure, Susie. I'm just happy to be here.
And I have to say too, I'm grateful to quick mention that I caught an email from Laura Adler, who is one of my mentors in clean in safer environments. Her mission is training practitioners and how to bring this conversation to the public because it's a sticky conversation and it's something I've been tuned into over the last 20 years because of my own chemical sensitivity that developed through the work that I was doing, but it's still very fresh topic for so many people. This thought that our homes could be toxic And not simply because it might be moldy or something else. So we'll get into all of that. But I'd love to know how you came to be in this area of specialty.
Well, it's a long story. So I'll make it as short as I can. Back in the early 90s 1991 1992. At the time, I was working with my family's business, they started a commercial construction material supply company back in the 30s. And I got out of school and jumped into the family business, and I was selling high end, epoxy and urethane coatings for parking garages, bridge decks, animal clinics, you name it. These materials were designed to withstand some of the most dangerous solvents in the world. And so well, we got into a project Milwaukee where we were supplying this material. And after the first primer coat went down, we started getting people complaining of the odors, people living in the condos above this below grade parking structure, were complaining about the odors from the product, and we had no idea what was going on. We were using water based epoxies. And everybody thought, you know, this is 1991 everybody thought water base means safe, right? Well, we got calls from people living in the condos, one of those calls happened to be from the Office of the United States senator who worked there, you start to take notice. But what really threw us for a loop was three of our own workers were rushed to the hospital because of inhalation complications, they couldn't breathe, they couldn't get oxygen, the curing process of the coding, literally suck the oxygen out of the room, they couldn't breathe. Wow. And that that shook me. I mean, it literally rocked my world here, I'm thinking I'm young in the industry, I'm gonna make a my career out of selling these types of products. And this is what my family has been doing. I'm going to do this to
latest technology to I remember when these were coming out and waterbased. Same thing. I won't steal the show with my story yet. But absolutely, you thought you were doing the right thing, this is going to transform the industry,
right. And so and that's why we specifically chose waterbased instead of a solvent base. But what we found out was that water base just means and even to this day, it has the same meaning 50% of the liquid component in the product is water, it can be called water base. Rest can be xylene, or acetone or ammonia or butyl acetate or whatever. Well, in this particular case, it was actually the the isocyanates that were causing the problem, you know, know those very well. And that's when I actually became sensitive myself. And so I learned all about chemical sensitivity, literally thrown into the fire. And I had to find products that would finish the project for our clients. But then it also dawned on me that, well, here's your people who hired us to provide the best of the best for them. And we're potentially hurting them. unbeknownst to us. What can we do to help this industry and went on a search and I found a very, very small company, actually based in San Diego, California, called AFM safecoat. American formulating and manufacturing at the time, AFM was a very small fab formulator and and producer of what's called toxin free common sense paints and finishes. Now with our
marine industry, there's a demand for it. So we have to keep from here, for
sure. And so keep in mind back in the early 90s. We knew nothing about vo C's we knew nothing about green was still just a color and instead of a way of life. So I started a small company selling what I called common sense building materials. Now in By the mid 90s, I was president of the largest architectural Association in the Midwest, and most of my friends in the industry were were partners and owners of large architectural engineering firms. And so I went to them I went to my friend's and said, If you found a toxin free paint, would you use it on your project? And they all said, Well, I suppose if somebody really, you know, thought it was a big deal, we could use it. They didn't want anything to do with it. Home Builders didn't want anything to do with it. We went to the Home Builders and they said you know I don't know if this is going to be a thing nobody really cares about this ever understands that a hot new home has a lot of odor to it. Well, as I was making these presentations, people would come up to me afterwards. The people who work for these people that I was presenting to and say, Where can I buy this from my own home. And it dawned on me that there is a market. And so I started a company, specifically selling residential building materials that were healthier. And again, this is before the US Green Building Council before the LEED program before the voc regulations. And really from the mid 90s on, the industry just exploded. Unfortunately, it exploded in the wrong direction, it went towards energy efficiency and global environmental concerns, and away from human health. And we can talk about that. Not there's anything wrong with those two things. Of course, they're very important. But if you're somebody who has sensitivity to chemicals, somebody who has young kids, older, older parents living in the home, people with depressed immune systems, the health of the product, the toxicity of the product is the only thing to look for. Whether or not it contains vo C's, whether or not it meets some green label is really irrelevant.
Oh, there's so much I don't want to we'll try to stay on track today. Guys, we could go so in so many different directions. So yeah, as Andy was just saying, I was sharing before we got on on video today that, in my experience, working in technical theater, doing that theater magic with two part epoxies and foams and different you know, mold making supplies and then leaving those supplies in cabinets in the shop where I was working, I became sensitive to the very same chemicals that isocyanates which are available at Home Depot in that can of Expanding Foam. Great stuff, right? So then think about it's in urethanes. It's in all kinds of finishes and coatings, right. And at about the same time, it was ahead of the conversation, although there was an industrial hygienists named manono Russell, who was bringing this conversation to theatres because they were noticing occupational exposure and sensitivities in their staff, which is still an issue, but I'm glad that she was kind of a forerunner in the industry. And, and to your point, exactly, this should be common knowledge now and we're still just having this conversation. So if anybody doesn't know voc is volatile organic compounds. What's your kind of nutshell description of that?
So a voc is essentially any carbon based molecule that's readily vaporized at room temperature that could rise to the upper atmosphere react with nitrogen and UV up there and create low level smog. That's the official EPA definition of what a voc is. Now keep in mind nowhere in there does it say anything about human health. Now, it is true out of the 287 vo C's that are used in building materials. Some of them are very dangerous for humans, no doubt. But there's 90,000 other chemicals used that are not vo C's. There are a whole host of vo C's that are found in products that are completely harmless. And what we've done here is we've created the situation where people are always looking for the voc metric. And then using that to decide whether or not it's safe or not to use in their own home. And I'll give you two examples. Number one, peel the skin off of an orange and you release 850 grams per liter of vo C's doesn't mean it's gonna hurt you. If you have oil sensitivities, orange oil, sure, if you get it in your eyes, it's gonna burn. But just by itself, it's completely harmless. However, most voc free paints on the market today contain acetone, ammonia, or butyl acetate or one of those derivatives. acetone we know is his nail polish remover highly, highly dangerous solvent. But yet the EPA says it's not a voc. Therefore it can be used in paints and coatings and building materials and not be disclosed on any safety data sheet.
Wow. Because it's not a carbon based molecule.
Well, technically, it's a carbon based molecule but it doesn't actually react the same. And so the paint coatings industry lobbied very hard to get those those solvents added to the exempt list. And so what that is done is look at the safety data sheet and say, well there's nothing dangerous in this product I can use it and they wonder why they still can't live in their house for a year. It's because whether or not a product contains a regulated or unregulated voc chemists chemicals can off gas from a cured surface of paint for up to three and a half years after it reaches a full cure.
Wow. So long after there's that smell. That smell of a fresh finish
exactly long. This is what I'm talking about. The industry has gone away from common sense looking at products from a human health standpoint is it going to hurt him Not too well, it might hurt the environments, which in turn could hurt humans. I understand that. But they're more concerned about the environmental concerns. The EPA is not the HPA, they're not the human Protection Agency, right? We know this, the EPA is not out there to help you and I. So we've got to take matters into our own hands. And that's why through our company, green Design Center, we work on projects literally all over the world as consultants, material suppliers, sourcing agents, to help people who do have concerns, live in a healthier home.
Yes, which is crucial. I'm so glad that you're doing this work and being as visible and active as you are to spread the word because because there's not the same visibility and power behind where those commercial dollars can land and keep those messages going. Oh, it's no voc. It's okay. So, I'd love for you. Could you let people know? How do these chemical sensitivities like? How might someone get curious, look into this as a potential reality? Because I think it's much more common than people would ever expect.
I think it's far more common than you would think. Matter of fact, most estimates say that, in the United States alone, probably around 25% of the population has a chemical sensitivity, whether it's someone like you or I, who, you know, we we can react heavily to certain chemicals because of our past exposure. Or it's someone who walks through the perfume aisle at a department store and gets a headache. That's a chemical sensitivity. Or maybe you use one type of soap. And every time you use that soap, you get a rash. That's a chemical sensitivity. So keep in mind that out of the 25% of the population, who has this type of sensitivity, a very small fraction of them actually admit it. So what do you do with that? What we're finding out now, when I started this business, so many years ago, chemical sensitivity was actually being mulled over by the American Medical Association to be added as a disease and never got added. And in hindsight, I'm glad that's what happened. Because that actually forced the medical industry and larger manufacturers to really dig into the causes of chemical sensitivity, we're getting more and more information now about this, we're finding that chemical sensitivity really is a symptom of an another underlying condition. So people who become chemically sensitive, typically have Lyme disease. They have, they have been tested for the, you know, genetic disposition to have mold sensitivities. People who have depressed immune system or immune system disorders, mast cell disorder, other types of other diseases, other issues that will use chemical sensitivity just as one of those symptoms. And so if somebody doesn't like the smell of something, that's not necessarily a sensitivity, that's just an annoyance, if somebody actually has a physical reaction, and that physical reaction can be flu like symptoms, a headache, you know, all the way up to an electric shock. That is a true chemical sensitivity. And I think that the more you, you hear about it from friends and family, you know, 30 years ago, this is rarely talked about. Matter of fact, 30 years ago, 95% of my customer base were people who literally lived in rooms in their home coated in aluminum foil, because they couldn't tolerate the real world. But now 95% of my customer base are people who, maybe they have a sensitivity, maybe it's just an annoyance, but they know somebody who has severe sensitivities and they don't want to become that person, and they will do whatever it takes to avoid those toxins in their life.
Yes, and you said earlier, you know, when you consider the people who are more susceptible or compromised, the younger members in our family, the older members in our family, people who have autoimmune disorders, that suddenly is a big part of our population. So this isn't to protect the exception. This is really preventive as well. I mean, it's it's also important
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's, it's, it is you know, as we find out about the different diseases and affects different age groups, obviously differently. And that kind of chemical sensitivity is kind of like that, in that at any walk of life, you could become chemical sensitive because of either your, your genetic makeup, or because of what you've been exposed to. There are, there's three ways that somebody becomes chemically sensitive one is a life altering experience, car accident, childbirth major surgery, something that alters the body chemistry in the body electricity. The second way is massive exposure Pesticide Application. A exposure like Legionella Legionnaires disease, right. And again, chemical sensitivity being a symptom of Legionella. Well, the third way is probably the most common way, which is low level exposure over a long period of time that's causing other issues in the body, leading to a chemical sensitivity. And that's been described as you, you, you are born into this world with this with this bucket inside of your body. And that bucket is allows you to fill up these chemicals that that you are exposed to. And most people have the ability to filter them out. Some people that bucket gets full, very fast. And once it starts to overflow, you can't stop it. And those people, the ones who are literally reacting to everything they come in contact with, we call those universal reactors. They anything that's Petro chemically related to the initial issue that they had, will cause the same reaction. And so not many people are like that, thank goodness. But I think more people are talking about it, which is allowing more research dollars to go into it.
Thank goodness, because to your point, you know, there might be a disclosure on the label, it's only what they're required to put. So whenever you say warning or caution, or you know, pay attention to that that's not just out of the good nature of business, that's because they're required. And that's really looking at the the synergistic component of when you put all these ingredients together into a product because they don't have to disclose their real formulation that's protected. So yeah, I love that. Thank you. And and I love this stress bucket analogy. It works in so many different capacities, too. And so whether it's a genetic trait that starts to limit your ability to detoxify, or to your point, a life event, like an accident or some thing that required healing, or put your stress system on alert, and it didn't disengage, if you will, right, then you are you're so predisposed to encounter that. So thank you, I think that that brings some, some light to it. So I'd like to explore to because we say you know, in addition to having your home be a healing Haven, you really want your bedroom to be a sanctuary. And I know this is one of the areas in which you provide people a lot of insight and support. So what's important to know or understand or why does the bedroom matter?
So it's a great topic great question. The reason why bedrooms matter so much is that everything we're exposed to during the day, the body absorbs the the exposures from electromagnetic fields, just all areas of stress in the body. The bedroom should be the one room of the home at least that is that sanctuary where you can go into and your body can heal. We all hope to spend six to eight hours a night sleeping hope to and it becomes more difficult to get those six to eight hours if your bedroom is also bombarding you with those same issues that you face throughout the day. So I'm talking about not only chemical exposure, but more so exposure from electromagnetic fields and specifically from Wi Fi. And I know this is difficult because we all use our phones now for an alarm. We wake up to these things are right next to us. But Wi Fi is one of the worst sleep disruptors that there is. And there are people in this industry who can talk at great length about this far beyond what I know I know enough to be dangerous on this topic. But all I can tell you is that avoidance of Wi Fi, even installing what are called kill switches which is a circuit breaker just to turn off all electricity around the room and then be very very careful of the materials you choose to finish your bedroom out. I mean that that holds true throughout the entire house right 90% of the chemical exposure that you're going to face inside of the home will come from things you can see and touch 90% flooring materials is typically the worst offender paints and finishes. Your second biggest offender cabinetry would work and built ins your third offender and the fourth would be your own personal furnishings. And furniture, window treatments, things like that. Beyond that, that last 10% is usually things that you can't easily fix what's behind the wall, the insulation, the vapor barrier, the caulking materials, the sheathing, so forth. When we get into doing whole home consulting, we obviously go down to this. I've had clients before that will have us send them samples of every material that goes into building their home in glass jars. So they can do the sniff test, do muscle testing, whatever they have to do in order to give me the approval that it's okay to use and we're talking about anywhere between 500 and 1000 components that go into a home. So but in the bedroom, for what you can control whether you own the space or you rent the space. The floor material I know we all love something soft underfoot but get rid of the carpet. carpet is the biggest offender of toxicity and just about everybody's home. There are healthier carpets and there are completely synthetic free carpets out there. But the average carpet that we put into our homes, whether it's considered eco friendly or green or whatever you want to call it is not human friendly. I'd rather have you live on the sub flooring material than live on that carpet. If you need something soft underfoot. There are great companies out there that make chemical free hand handmade rugs. For the walls, choose a healthy paint brand. You know this is where we still work with AFM safecoat today out of San Diego, they still are the only ones making a a paint that's free of health hazards and toxins. And it will seal up the chemical off gassing what's underneath. And then window treatments. Stay away from the plastic Window Treatments every time a shaft of light comes to that glass that heats that up and that increases the off gassing. I know it's not aesthetically wonderful, but the old fashioned metal mini blinds are probably the healthiest ones you can buy.
And then for your mattresses and bedding. Try to stay away from things that have flame retardants, things that have antibacterial agents. I remember years ago I had a mattress I was I was sleeping on and I developed horrible allergies. And we found out that this particular mattress brand had a synthetic rubber air bladder in it. And it it actually developed black mold on it just from perspiration from dead skin cells. And no wonder why developed allergies. I got rid of that I got myself a natural latex completely organic mattress I've never had the problem since so doing these little things can make a huge difference. Imagine the burden that your body has throughout the day. If it has a place of sanctuary a place of rest, then you start waking up refreshed and ready to go and then your body can then help work on the rest of the day.
Yes, yes there is a lot there y'all might have to rewind and listen to this episode again. There's some brilliance here. So I love that you said we'd be better off on this sub floor. I'm picturing everybody walking around on MDF or plywood. splinters yes and and I think I love your point that you know if you get a good quality paint you can effectively seal in what's underneath we're not talking about tear out all the drywall and it's a really intensive overhaul. You can mitigate a lot with some smart adjustments so a safe paint. What's your favorite or what kind of flooring would you steer people away from because there's a lot of the wood wood texture kind of ceramic tile there's also you know vinyl is nice because it's not as cold underfoot as the ceramic so where do you like point people to start out with that's a huge topic in and of itself. I know
very big topic but luckily it's actually a topic that has has actually gotten some really great improvements to over the years. You know when I got in the business 30 years ago I had one flooring material that I could trust and that was a product called marmoleum. It was a natural linoleum line to politics made today the same way was made 130 years ago and that's a great product for for any floor any any part of the home. But nowadays you can buy things such as you know, luxury vinyl tile, I'm not I have never been a big fan of vinyl, just the inherent toxicity of how it's made. But I have learned that there is no such thing as a perfect home. There's no such thing as a perfect product. And everybody has their budget. You know their limitations. We have probably now over 200 successful installations around the country in what are called health houses. For people who have sensitivities. They've installed a particular type of product, it's called Cali vinyl Pro. That's the that's the name of the product. It uses a a stone composite core, and a very, very hard vinyl, the rule of thumb with with vinyls and plastics is that the softer they are, the more they'll actually chemically release. So the harder products are less likely to to become airborne. So we love that products been very good for us. But we also find now products coming from Portugal. Waterproof cork is a new product that click and lock system very warm to the touch softer than even a hardwood or vinyl is but completely free of chemical off gassing. So and it looks like wood. Just a lot of great choices these days. Generally speaking, I like hard surfaces that you can, you can sweep or vacuum or wash easily. I know the downside is is that people who have carpet, they like carpet, because it doesn't look dusty very fast. And that's because the dust gets trapped in there and people forget to vacuum on a wood floor or on a vinyl floor, cork floor, you're gonna see those dust bunnies really quick. But that just means it's telling you it's time to clean. So that's a good thing.
It is it is exactly it's it's much better to know what you're dealing with and to be blind to years of accumulation of dust and allergens and pet dander and everything else that adds up in the carpeting, just like they do in the mattresses too. So yeah, and to your point, um, the fabric finishes are something to be aware of because of those flame retardants which I think they changed in in 2012 or so. But every time they say we're free of one chemical, they've just moved a step over on the molecular train. So you know, we're not free of hazard there. So we really have to be aware of all the fabric finishes in our room. And, and I loved your point too, about EMF, because people tend to Well, now especially the conversation, everything, every conversation gets a little more polarized, but electromagnetic fields are really relevant, again to people who have compromised systems, whether they've had immune issues, or they've had to recover younger or older people and were affected in different ways. And there's so many influences, we probably aren't even aware of to what point we are impacted. I haven't been able to replace the alarm clock phone by the bed trick yet. But there but I'm mindful of it. And I pay attention to how this works. So yeah, you can get a router switch to power down Wi Fi overnight. And that helps. But it's not just a abstract or an something we shouldn't be worried about. It really does have an impact on us.
It does. You know, these are things that we weren't exposed to 20 years ago and all of a sudden, this has become part of our daily life. And, you know, I'm sure 30 years from now there'll be studies showing the the ramifications of this and we'll all sit there and go oh yeah, we knew that we just didn't do anything about it. You know, I'm not saying we shouldn't embrace technology, just don't like literally embrace it. Don't have it on our person all the time. Don't put it in your your back pocket or your front pocket. Try to stay away from it as much as you can. And I'm not saying that I'm perfect. I believe me I run a business and so my phone is my lifeline. But be aware and try to stay away from it. I mean, at least staying away from a computer screen a couple hours before you fall asleep to get away from that blue light that causes those brain waves to to just be in full active mode and we can't fall asleep.
Yes, exactly. And I think that to your point in the future we'll look back you know right now we're not sure why. Nearly one in two people have trouble with insomnia or so many people have migraines and younger and younger kids are having issues with migraines, right? What if we changed a lot of factors there's no silver bullet but we could we could be tuning into the different things and there's some super sleuth three we can be doing awesome, thank you. That's a lot to a lot to take in. That's just the surface and an Andy makes available and will have his business link in the show notes. So his consulting services are priceless. You want to know this information before you get into the middle or end a project and then realize you've got sick home syndrome going on and you have to move back out as soon as you get to move in. So that's really important to you. But I wanted to also because we're recording this in summer, it's home improvement season, it's going to come out in a couple of months from now, because I've been busy talking to people. But when people are looking at or recognizing, okay, it's time to make a change, it's time to improve our home space. Are there some key tips or things to start with? Or where do you recommend people start with that, so they don't make mistakes? Well,
you know, I recommend, first of all, I always get recommendations from family and friends. You know, it's hard to find contractors these days, the industry is very tight with labor. The good contractors are usually booked out for for many, many months. But if, if a family member or a good friend has used a company with great luck, I usually start there. You know, when it comes to actually doing a remodel, though, and trying to make it healthy, or a new build, and making it healthy. I will say this, there aren't a lot of contractors in the country that specialize in this for many reasons that we can get into at some point. But the contractors that are are gearing themselves towards green building, what they're really focusing on is energy efficiency. And other global environmental concerns, I have found that working with green builders is actually much more frustrating than working with just a good quality custom home builder. Because let's face it, if you're hiring a custom home builder to build a one of a kind home, these people are used to having the owners, emailing them and texting them every other minute saying I want this sink. And have you seen this Pinterest page. And can I get this for a front door. They're used to people who have very specific requirements, specific demands, and they have that specific aesthetic, they're going for green home builders are stuck in the mindset of everything we can do to make this home energy efficient. And if it's not necessarily healthy for the occupants, that's okay because it's really energy efficient. And we look at a different we look at it as build the home that you want. Make it as healthy as we can possibly make it there is no perfect product, there is no perfect project you will drive yourself to the poorhouse or the not house one of the two, if you try to achieve perfection, but you try to achieve tolerance, comfort. You know my customers who are extremely chemically sensitive, they obviously have these specific requirements of what they can and cannot and they have in their homes, doesn't mean their homes look like, you know, an Ancient Cave. It looks like any other home that's built today with wonderful aesthetics and great color and, you know, wonderful room sizes and tall ceilings, just so happens to be used, you know that we used healthy materials to build it. And we just use a little different approach with the with the construction team.
That's a golden tip right there. I would never have thought about that. So I love how you explain that. Because that's the Absolute Truth. Custom Home Builders are like, have you heard this new product? Well, I haven't worked with it yet. But I will figure it out. Because I figured things out before right? You need that that willingness that gameness to say yes, I haven't met it yet. But let's add it to the repertoire because they recognize it's only a selling point for their future projects. Oh yeah. Now I've worked with this.
Every home that they build is it's just a billboard for the next customer. And they rely on that word of mouth. Some of the best builders I've worked with across the country, they don't have retires, their work is handed to them because they do good work. And they have wonderful listening techniques. They hear what the customers are telling them and they provide that I work with a contractor down in Texas called j s to partners. All they do is build healthy homes. They started a few years back with a dream of can we build healthy homes for people because one of the owners is very careful to sensitive herself. Now they've got probably a half a dozen homes under construction right now. Just in a matter of a few years because of word of mouth. People really want to live in healthy homes. But you know you either you find a j s to which there aren't many of those around the country or you find yourself a good home builder custom home builder who will listen to someone like me, guide them through this this horrible maze of toxic building materials.
Yes, I love that and, and the other piece of golden advice there is the good builders are booked way out. So don't wait until I've got the money to do the renovation. I've got the Time to do the renovation, we're going to go live with the inlaws for two weeks while we make our hosts have a nightmare. Look ahead, think ahead, even start planning this a year in advance, we have everything queued up. And that's going to bring down the stress level to
exactly. Well, and that's that's a great point about stress. You know, we all have stress in our daily lives. And one of the big things to avoid stress in home project is planning, making sure that you've planned enough time for waiting. And I know right now, it's very difficult because of the pandemic, we're waiting for materials for 12 15 18 weeks or longer. Sometimes appliances, windows, even lumber in some cases. But we have to realize that the project will have its ups and downs, you have to be able to manage expectations of yourself, of the contractors, what they can do and the timeframe that they have. And just understand that this is this all has to come together at like this wonderfully choreographed musical. And if one person makes a wrong step, it can affect the others just be ready for that. Like I said earlier before, there is no perfect project. And so you really have to be flexible enough to withstand that. And and, you know, get through it.
Awesome, awesome, really useful tips. But we covered a lot of ground today. And I know we could go on you were saying you had a class and five and a half hours later people will still riveted, because you really can you can dive down this rabbit hole. And it is so much to our benefit to pay attention to the homes we're living in because we can control this space. And now, with a lot of people not returning to workplaces, it's even more important to pay attention to our homes. Absolutely. Is there anything else you want to share with us before we go today?
I think that's a good primer. Like I said, or you just mentioned, we could go on any of these topics we could dig down and really drill into the the who, what, where and why of this. But I think for the most part is in today's building climate, I think that there's a lot of information out there. Certainly, you know, your podcast, my podcast. Trust, the people you you listen to. And trust. That's really the important thing. I think, you know, healthy building is going to become somewhat of a thrown around moniker in in the next couple of years because I think everybody wants to jump on that bandwagon. But just understand that, you know, there are folks like myself and others around the country who've been at this for quite a long time. And, you know, we understand that there is no such thing as perfection, all we can do is hope for tolerance and an aesthetically beautiful home. So you can really trust those folks that you find and, and ask a lot of questions. There is really that old adage, there's no such thing as a dumb question. in this industry. That is exactly correct.
Absolutely. Do your homework upfront and make sure you're aligned with somebody who's giving you the straight information and not just what's going to help them or you know the industry because it's your home. Terrific. Yeah, we'll have the links in the show notes for your website and your podcast so people can stay tuned in to the conversations you're having. I think you're doing such important work. So thank you for bringing your message. Thank you. Take a care.
All right.
Thank you for tuning in today. Check out the show notes for any links we mentioned. To learn more about living life with less stress and more flow, visit happifiedlife.com. And if you found value in today's episode, make sure you subscribe to catch the next one. And leave a review to help fellow pod surfers fine hypothyroid until next time, keep on shining